Author Topic: Going under the knife tomorrow! (Read 2337 times)

MyBigToy · « **on:** December 27, 2009, 09:52:51 PM »

The truck goes in tomorrow to start the cam installation. What's going in? Cam, springs, retainers, hardened pushrods, 3" pulley for the Magnacharger, crank pulley will be pinned, new timing chain/gears. I'm also changing the coolant while I'm in there. I'll be needing a shorter belt but I haven't bought it yet.

I'm planning to drive it (very easily!) on the current tune until I can get the tune updated; I think I'll have Nelson Performance provide me with a good base tune as I don't want to screw anything up. The last thing I want to get done, which I also haven't purchased, is a Hooker Maximum Flow 3" muffler with a single 3" exit. Then I'm done with the modding on the Av until the tranny goes out.

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot about the 160 thermostat.

I'm thinking 4-wheel drive burnouts are probably pretty fun!

bluedevil · « **Reply #1 on:** December 27, 2009, 10:00:32 PM »

Quote from: MyBigToy on December 27, 2009, 09:52:51 PM

The truck goes in tomorrow to start the cam installation. What's going in? Cam, springs, retainers, hardened pushrods, 3" pulley for the Magnacharger, crank pulley will be pinned, new timing chain/gears. I'm also changing the coolant while I'm in there. I'll be needing a shorter belt but I haven't bought it yet.

I'm planning to drive it (very easily!) on the current tune until I can get the tune updated; I think I'll have Nelson Performance provide me with a good base tune as I don't want to screw anything up. The last thing I want to get done, which I also haven't purchased, is a Hooker Maximum Flow 3" muffler with a single 3" exit. Then I'm done with the modding on the Av until the tranny goes out.

I'm thinking 4-wheel drive burnouts are probably pretty fun!

Im jealous.

You doing the work?

MyBigToy · « **Reply #2 on:** December 27, 2009, 10:15:42 PM »

Quote from: BlueDevil on December 27, 2009, 10:00:32 PM

Im jealous. You doing the work?

I'm helping. I didn't feel like I should try to tackle it by myself so it's going to the shop that originally installed the Magnacharger. They said I could help all I wanted so that's what I plan to do unless I'm just getting in their way.

bluedevil · « **Reply #3 on:** December 27, 2009, 10:20:15 PM »

Quote from: MyBigToy on December 27, 2009, 10:15:42 PM

I'm helping. I didn't feel like I should try to tackle it by myself so it's going to the shop that originally installed the Magnacharger. They said I could help all I wanted so that's what I plan to do unless I'm just getting in their way.

Thats cool. Im taking my AV to the shop too and ask if i can supervise.

I would think all that can be done in 1 day.

MyBigToy · « **Reply #4 on:** December 27, 2009, 10:30:47 PM »

Quote from: BlueDevil on December 27, 2009, 10:20:15 PM

Thats cool. Im taking my AV to the shop too and ask if i can supervise.

I would think all that can be done in 1 day.

I'm sure it could be done in one long dedicated day but there's other cars in the shop also. Trey, one of the shop's owners, is going to do the work. He's also picky and takes his time. I don't mind as I much prefer it's done right than quickly. And I think 42K miles on the Magnacharger install with zero issues kinda says something about how well they do things.

I'm guessing we'll be done after day 2.

oHIobellboy · « **Reply #5 on:** December 28, 2009, 05:23:33 AM »

Quote from: MyBigToy on December 27, 2009, 10:30:47 PM

I'm sure it could be done in one long dedicated day but there's other cars in the shop also. Trey, one of the shop's owners, is going to do the work. He's also picky and takes his time. I don't mind as I much prefer it's done right than quickly. And I think 42K miles on the Magnacharger install with zero issues kinda says something about how well they do things.

I'm guessing we'll be done after day 2.

Richie_Rich · « **Reply #6 on:** December 28, 2009, 06:02:10 AM »

Sounds like fun.

I hope all goes well.

bluedevil · « **Reply #7 on:** December 28, 2009, 11:26:05 PM »

Well? How did it go?

MyBigToy · « **Reply #8 on:** December 31, 2009, 12:19:46 PM »

I'm still in pieces in the garage. The shop owner called late Tuesday afternoon and said he had some concerns about the cam and pushrods.

He had some calls in for consultation.

One of the pushrods was burred on the end and the hole was almost closed; it is also about 0.020" shorter than the others. Some of the others are not perfectly straight (I don't think this is an issue because the "out of straight" is very small). I told him to not mess with them if there was a question and to just buy another set. He's going to do just that and compare the straightness to the others; if there is no significant difference he's going to buy just 8 instead of 16 so he can replace the bad one. At least it's only, at worst, another $130 out of pocket.

I went down yesterday morning and took a look at the cam; there were some very small pits on the journals, one of which was in the travel path. You couldn't feel it with your fingernail but it was visible; you could barely feel it with a toothpick. Since it's a roller cam I said I was inclined to go ahead and use it. However, I only want to have to do the work one time so I ended up taking the cam down to a machine shop (old-school hot rod type shop) that makes their living doing engine work and rebuilds. Three of their engine guys looked it over and said, with no hesitation, that there would be no problem using it.

At least I get to keep most of the additional money I have set aside for other mods!

We're back into it today but I'm guessing it won't be ready now until sometime next week, with the New Year's holiday and weekend coming up. We're going to get everything that we can done while we are waiting for the new pushrods to be delivered - we had no success finding them locally, which really surprised me.

The best-laid plans of mice and men...........................Murphy always seems to screw things up.

bluedevil · « **Reply #9 on:** December 31, 2009, 12:45:27 PM »

Are these the new pushrods?

Donnie1 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 31, 2009, 01:17:14 PM »

Better to do it right the first time than have to replace more stuff later because of it.

MyBigToy · « **Reply #11 on:** December 31, 2009, 02:16:02 PM »

Quote from: BlueDevil on December 31, 2009, 12:45:27 PM

Are these the new pushrods?

These are the ones I bought from DanV, along with the cam, springs, seats, and retainers.

MyBigToy · « **Reply #12 on:** December 31, 2009, 02:19:49 PM »

Quote from: Donnie1 on December 31, 2009, 01:17:14 PM

Better to do it right the first time than have to replace more stuff later because of it.

That's exactly why I took the cam to the machine shop and why I told the shop owner to just buy a new set of pushrods. I only want to do it once; if it had worked out that I needed to buy a new cam, that's exactly what I would have done. I wouldn't have liked it, but that's the risks you take when you buy used equipment.

I've not been burned yet but I was certainly concerned about it. I can live with having to buy a new set of pushrods.

Fowlhunter · « **Reply #13 on:** December 31, 2009, 03:43:25 PM »

Good luck man and hope all goes well!!!!! I can't wait for the 4-wheel drive burnouts!!!!!

Donnie1 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 31, 2009, 03:51:28 PM »

Quote from: MyBigToy on December 31, 2009, 02:19:49 PM

That's exactly why I took the cam to the machine shop and why I told the shop owner to just buy a new set of pushrods. I only want to do it once; if it had worked out that I needed to buy a new cam, that's exactly what I would have done. I wouldn't have liked it, but that's the risks you take when you buy used equipment.

I've not been burned yet but I was certainly concerned about it. I can live with having to buy a new set of pushrods.

Good thing this ain't your first rodeo. Good luck with the build and hope it all turns out for the better, which I think it will.

Richie_Rich · « **Reply #15 on:** December 31, 2009, 07:09:29 PM »

It sounds like there was issues with the engine these were pulled from.
I'd never use bent push rods...even they are slightly bent.
I wonder why they were bent in the first place.

Was that one push rod dropped?
.020 is way short.

MyBigToy · « **Reply #16 on:** December 31, 2009, 08:18:47 PM »

Quote from: Richie_Rich on December 31, 2009, 07:09:29 PM

It sounds like there was issues with the engine these were pulled from.
I'd never use bent push rods...even they are slightly bent.
I wonder why they were bent in the first place.

Was that one push rod dropped?
.020 is way short.

I don't think it's so much there was an issue with the engine the cam was pulled from as that the cam was stored for at least a year, maybe under less than ideal conditions, and got some moisture in the packaging. I didn't see any unusual wear on the cam, just some burnishing on the lobes from the rollers. The pits became apparent only after the lobes were lightly polished out with fine emery cloth. The cam was supposedly only used for a short period of time.

I wouldn't necessarily call the pushrods bent so much as just not absolutely 100% straight. If you stack individual pushrods one against the other and hold them vertically you can see extremely small gaps of light between them when you rotate them. I guess we could set up some v-blocks on a granite block and use a dial indicator to measure the runout but like I said, I'd rather just get some new pushrods and be done with it. I'm not familiar enough with pushrod straightness to know how straight is normal and don't really feel like doing the research to find out right now. Having been in manufacturing for a few years

, it really does appear to me to just be normal manufacturing process variation but as I stated, I have no experience to know for sure.

The pushrods didn't come from the same engine as the cam. As far as the short pushrod, the only thing I can come up with is that a wrong pushrod got into the stack somehow; they were all supposed to be 7.400" standard LS engine pushrods and from what I've seen, 7.380" is not a standard length you can order.

I should have thought about checking with you when the questions came up about the cam.....

MyBigToy · « **Reply #17 on:** January 04, 2010, 09:34:21 PM »

It looks like it may be ready to pick up tomorrow!

Just in time to save me from trying to drive the CTS to work in the snow on really thin tread on Thursday morning.

Feedback: the pushrods did appear to not be out of straight any worse than brand new Comp Cam pushrods so my assessment about normal manufacturing variation must have been correct.

It's a shame I won't be able to really try the truck out until I get around to upgrading the tune. That's going to be REALLY tough.

bluedevil · « **Reply #18 on:** January 04, 2010, 09:41:30 PM »

Time to grab the laptop, notepad and burn some chair time buddy.

MyBigToy · « **Reply #19 on:** January 05, 2010, 07:18:30 PM »

It's done and home!!!!!

I upped the idle speed to 700 while still at the shop but it's having problems learning a steady idle. It definitely needs some idle tuning as I can tell it's pig rich at idle. When you load the system up at idle, like sharply cranking the wheels for a low-speed turn (like backing into a parking space), the idle becomes very erratic and it sometimes dies chasing itself up and down trying to maintain a constant idle.

Granted it's cold so the tires aren't gripping much but less than 1/2 throttle at a stop blew the tires away. A 3/4 throttle stab at 15 mph resulted in blazing rear tires. It will be interesting to see how it runs once the tune gets dialed in.

So far, so good but I've really got to get the idle issue taken care of. Based on prior experience I'm sure some more on/off key cycles will help but it definitely needs more than just that. You can barely tell the cam is in there at 700 rpm.

bluedevil · « **Reply #20 on:** January 05, 2010, 07:33:19 PM »

Burning tires pretty good huh?

Thats cool. I cant even do that. I suspect i have a leak.

oHIobellboy · « **Reply #21 on:** January 05, 2010, 07:33:45 PM »

Great to hear MBT. Can't wait till spring to see some great videos of it chewing up the asphalt

Main One · « **Reply #22 on:** January 06, 2010, 08:23:32 AM »

Quote from: MyBigToy on January 05, 2010, 07:18:30 PM

I upped the idle speed to 700 while still at the shop but it's having problems learning a steady idle. It definitely needs some idle tuning as I can tell it's pig rich at idle. When you load the system up at idle, like sharply cranking the wheels for a low-speed turn (like backing into a parking space), the idle becomes very erratic and it sometimes dies chasing itself up and down trying to maintain a constant idle.

Congrats on the install and the satisfying results so far.

Regarding the idle, I suspect you need to work on the idle air flow table. The computer uses long term and short term idle trim values to hit the targeted idle speed. (There are I recall several of each of these - in and out of gear, and and adder for if the A/C compressor is on.) There are also parameters that define how large your long term idle trims can be. If your air flow is off far enough, the long term idle trim may not be allowed to be large enough to get to the idle speed by itself. When you go into an idle condition, the truck uses the last long term trim for that condition. If your long term trim is already maxed out, it will temporarily adjust by adding flow via a short term trim, and start to act like you would want, but then when you leave idle and then come back, it starts over again with the short term trim adjustment.

You can log your idle airflows as well as some of your idle trims and get a feel for where your air flows should be. You set them over temperature, like your idle speed, but for the 4 conditions depending upon in gear/out of gear and A/C no A/C.

By the way, with my cam, my minimum idle rpm is currently I believe 715 rpm. I believe at Bratfest when you rode in the truck it was at 700, maybe 705. I've been getting misfire codes coming up during idle - I believe largely due to being way past due to replace the NGK TR55ix plugs, which is why I've been increasing my idle speed. It was lower and I wasn't getting the misfire codes last winter like I am this winter.

Another thing you may want to consider looking at after getting the idle working well for you, is the what I think is called something like the off-throttle airflow adder table. After upping my idle speed and corresponding idle airflow values, probably increasing my idle airflows by about 20-30% over stock, I noticed on the interstate when I got off the throttle when coming up behind someone, the truck would not slow down very much without hitting the brakes. This table that I can't recall the name of precisely, adds airflow based upon engine rpms when you get off the throttle, above and beyond your idle airflow. I have basically zero'ed it out and now the truck "engine brakes" more like it did prior to the cam.

oHIobellboy · « **Reply #23 on:** January 06, 2010, 08:57:33 AM »

One more thing.... Time to get rid of that saying of yours in a siggy I read somewhere. "slow azz magna charged brick".

MyBigToy · « **Reply #24 on:** January 06, 2010, 09:53:41 AM »

Quote from: oHIobellboy on January 06, 2010, 08:57:33 AM

One more thing.... Time to get rid of that saying of yours in a siggy I read somewhere. "slow azz magna charged brick".

It is slow compared to a ZR1 or CTS-V!

Fowlhunter · « **Reply #25 on:** January 06, 2010, 10:48:36 AM »

Great news Joe!!!!!! Once you get the idle speed taken care of I'll be looking for a ride!!!!!

chevyfan · « **Reply #26 on:** January 06, 2010, 10:07:59 PM »

He is going to have to charge a ride fee to pay for the gas and tires. Count me in on a ride too!

MyBigToy · « **Reply #27 on:** January 06, 2010, 11:06:34 PM »

Quote from: chevyfan on January 06, 2010, 10:07:59 PM

He is going to have to charge a ride fee to pay for the gas and tires. Count me in on a ride too!

I can take four riders at a time in fair comfort but of course the additional weight might slow things down a little.

oHIobellboy · « **Reply #28 on:** January 07, 2010, 04:53:33 AM »

Quote from: MyBigToy on January 06, 2010, 11:06:34 PM

I can take four riders at a time in fair comfort but of course the additional weight might slow things down a little.

Guess I better go on a diet then.

Intimidatoruag · « **Reply #29 on:** January 07, 2010, 07:11:29 AM »

Quote from: oHIobellboy on January 07, 2010, 04:53:33 AM

Guess I better go on a diet then.

me too ...

MyBigToy · « **Reply #30 on:** January 09, 2010, 01:52:39 PM »

I got my truck out of the lockdown at the plant this afternoon.

I did quite a bit of research Thursday night and Friday and had a first stab reflash ready with my new idle airflow tables. I've reflashed it and it's idling quite a bit better than it was; it doesn't smell pig rich at idle now. I guess the real test will come when I restart from completely cold; that's when it's been idling the worst. So far, so good.

bluedevil · « **Reply #31 on:** January 09, 2010, 03:13:50 PM »

Quote from: MyBigToy on January 09, 2010, 01:52:39 PM

I got my truck out of the lockdown at the plant this afternoon.

I did quite a bit of research Thursday night and Friday and had a first stab reflash ready with my new idle airflow tables. I've reflashed it and it's idling quite a bit better than it was; it doesn't smell pig rich at idle now. I guess the real test will come when I restart from completely cold; that's when it's been idling the worst. So far, so good.

Good luck!

Say Joe,...... what was the swap charge......ballpark speaking?