Topic: Quick question, hopefully

[kklobe]

I'm new to this forum and new AV owner.  I have  stock 04, Black Z71 with some nice G3 20's.  I'll get a pic or two uploaded later.  I have what I am hoping is a simple question.  I have been reading several threads, but I haven't found what I was looking for...so here we go.

When I am in park, or at a stop.  When you hit the pedal I have a delay in responsiveness to the engine.  This delay is only a split second, but a delay.  I was told this is supposed to be there as it is an electronic throttle.  I just want to know how to get rid of the delay without going too crazy.  Eventually when time permits, I do want to do some mods.  But for now, as other, I have three girls and a stay at home wife.  I'm self employed and I run a bike and skate shop in Missouri.  I have virtually no free time but I am still willing to learn.

Thanks in advance,

K

[bluedevil]

Does this happens after you upgraded to 20's?   If so, a handheld programmer like Hypertech,DiaboSport will calibrate the speedometer and shifting points.

A 1/2" to 1" in tire size will make a difference to your speed.

What size tires are you running?

[kklobe]

I have 275/55/20.  I have 16's that I ran this past winter, 265/70/16 and I had the same results in the delay.  I can be setting in park and I still have the delay in revving up the motor.  I have had the fuel system cleaned and I run 89 at the pump.  Once the truck is moving I don't have any problems, just from a stop.

[bluedevil]

I bet theres nothing wrong with the electronic throttle. 

Its the "Torque Management" that somehow GM wants to tell us how to drive the AV now-a-days.

I dont have this issue as i removed the TQ completely using www.hptuners.com and i dont remember if i ever did when i purchased the AV.

I think the "Predator" can do this as well.

If you try do a "burnout",good luck because you simply cant.   ...but if you remove "TQ",i bet the responsiveness will be quicker at takeoff and even revvin'.

[kklobe]

Try to do a burn out, I haven't laughed that hard in a while.  I'll look into the Pred and see if I can eliminate the this issue.  Know of any deals on picking on of these up?

Thanks again,
K

[bluedevil]

HyperTech wont remove TQ.

HpTuners will and Predator.

I currently use predator but my parameters are different to a stock AV as i run a supercharger.

I think members WB,OhioBellBoy,MyBigToy use predator.  Hoping they'll chime in in the subject soon.

[Main One]

Sounds like Torque Management is the most likely cause to me too.  I don't think the wheels are the problem.  For one, they wouldn't affect how it responds when in Park, and 2, they aren't that big.

Do you have an aftermarket air intake like a K&N, Airaid, etc, or any other performance changes?

[kklobe]

I am looking at putting an aftermarket cold air intake on.  I won't have this for another two weeks.  Other then the wheel change, the truck is 100% stock.

K

[Main One]

Sounds like since you are stock, the basic tune in the powertrain control module should have a fairly decent volumetric efficieny table in it then.  When you hit the gas, you go into a non-steadystate airflow calculation mode which makes use of the values in the ve table.  Headers, exhaust, cam, and to some extent intake changes, can effect your volumetric efficiency.

[WB]

I can say that the white buffalo I drive does hesitate a little on take off when I run stock.  It almost remind me of a vehicle that uses vacuum and has a leak....speaking of leaks, make sure the intake system is tight and air isn't getting past the MAF sensor.  Any check engine lights??

The predator for your year will allow you to disable TM.  Mine is off. It is defaulted to off when you load a Diablo performance tune.

If you like to run different wheel sizes and are looking at CAIs I recommend something to allow you to adjust fueling to keep yourself from going too lean.

If your are a whiz at picking up automotive stuff and may get into forced induction, and other very technical mods, then HPtuners is for you. 

If you just want to adjust a few parameters like TM, shift firmness, shift time, fueling, etc...then the Predator U7193 sounds like the right tool.  Check out www.diablosport.com for predator info.

Hope this helps.....what kind of fuel are you using?  Hope it isn't Shell.....

 

WB

[kklobe]

Thanks for all of the information.  I have found a Predator U7193 for $215.00 used.  Does this sound like a descent deal?

Kevin

[oHIobellboy]

Thanks for all of the information.  I have found a Predator U7193 for $215.00 used.  Does this sound like a descent deal?

Kevin

I saw that on ebay, You need to find out the revision number on it. Mine is an older revision and may need to get sent back to Diablosport for a $100 update. Mine will not connect to my PC because it is older. If it's updated, then that's a fair price. The revision should be something like 9.xxxxx, mine is 2.04

[MyBigToy]

The $215 is a good deal; I gave $200 used for mine. I made sure it was the latest software version and that the previous owner had returned his truck to stock. The older Predator programmers lock to your VIN and cannot be used on a different vehicle without returning it to Diablosport and having it unlocked. They also upgrade the software at that time and it will set you back about $100.

I agree with the others; it sounds likely that your issue is torque management. You might also try cleaning your throttle body as it's pretty cheap to try and if it's dirty it could be contributing to the issue.

[Fowlhunter]

My 02 has always had a delay when sitting in park and I hit the throttle, never knew what the deal was.  SO by removing the TM this issue will be resolved??

[MyBigToy]

My 02 has always had a delay when sitting in park and I hit the throttle, never knew what the deal was.  SO by removing the TM this issue will be resolved??

Come take a ride in my Av and see if it has any hesitation.  When and where do you want to meet?

Yes, eliminating the torque management will go a long way toward eliminating the hesitation. My truck has instant throttle response.

[Donnie1]

Come take a ride in my Av and see if it has any hesitation.  When and where do you want to meet?

Yes, eliminating the torque management will go a long way toward eliminating the hesitation. My truck has instant throttle response.

I'd like a ride in it. 


Unfortunately instant throttle response for me would mean instant gas gauge drop.

[MyBigToy]

I'd like a ride in it. 


Unfortunately instant throttle response for me would mean instant gas gauge drop.

You're welcome to have a ride anytime, Donnie. One of these days we will both be at the same GTG. I live the instant throttle response gas gauge drop every time I drive the Av.

[Donnie1]

You're welcome to have a ride anytime, Donnie. One of these days we will both be at the same GTG. I live the instant throttle response gas gauge drop every time I drive the Av.

A GTG or let me know the next time you guys are at the lake and maybe we can meet for dinenr or something.

[Fowlhunter]

Come take a ride in my Av and see if it has any hesitation.  When and where do you want to meet?

Yes, eliminating the torque management will go a long way toward eliminating the hesitation. My truck has instant throttle response.

I would love to take a ride in your Av!!  What is the purpose of the torque management?  So a hand held tuner could eliminate this?

[Main One]

I would love to take a ride in your Av!!  What is the purpose of the torque management?  So a hand held tuner could eliminate this?

Torque Management is "insurance" for GM against warranty claims for transmissions.  Personally, if I was running a serious power adder, I would leave it in.  Since I've added maybe 50 hp, I'm not too worried about it myself.

[MyBigToy]

Torque Management is "insurance" for GM against warranty claims for transmissions.  Personally, if I was running a serious power adder, I would leave it in.  Since I've added maybe 50 hp, I'm not too worried about it myself.

It just gives me an excuse to get an FLT level V with billet shafts when the tranny goes out. I don't beat the crap out of my truck but if I want to run it, I do. The shift kit, billet servos, hardened separator plate, Beast sunshell, aluminum accumulator pistons, new Alto 3-4 clutch materials, and wide band should help the tranny survive for a while. Prior to this the 1-2 shift would "slide" into gear under hard acceleration; it no longer does this.

 

[MyBigToy]

I would love to take a ride in your Av!!  What is the purpose of the torque management?  So a hand held tuner could eliminate this?

As Main One indicated, torque management is GM's way of allowing an inadequate transmission to survive under a 6000 lb. truck. It basically pulls timing when you stab the throttle off the line. No timing, no power. It's more complicated than that but that's the basics. I know a current Predator programmer can eliminate torque management because that's how I eliminated it on my truck. I also zeroed out the shift times and played with the pressures some after the addition of the shift kit.

One of the biggest things I saw that helped throttle response was adding e-fans and thus getting rid of the fan/clutch assy. Taking all that weight off the front of the engine made a big difference.

[Fowlhunter]

As Main One indicated, torque management is GM's way of allowing an inadequate transmission to survive under a 6000 lb. truck. It basically pulls timing when you stab the throttle off the line. No timing, no power. It's more complicated than that but that's the basics. I know a current Predator programmer can eliminate torque management because that's how I eliminated it on my truck. I also zeroed out the shift times and played with the pressures some after the addition of the shift kit.

One of the biggest things I saw that helped throttle response was adding e-fans and thus getting rid of the fan/clutch assy. Taking all that weight off the front of the engine made a big difference.

I gotcha, maybe I'll leave the TM on, I don't want to have to replace the tranny, although I would love to do something (shift kit) to make the shifts a little more firm!  I'm currently working on locating an alternator (145a) that is a direct replacement with my current 105a.  I've been dealing with the parts guy (Kevin) at Trenary in O'Fallon.  I hope to start buying the parts soon needed to do the 05 efans!!!!

[MyBigToy]

If you are at Trenary you are only about 4 miles from my house. It would be a good time to take a ride.

With a stock truck you wouldn't have a whole lot to worry about with removal of torque management. If you added a Corvette or Billet servo you could worry even less as they increase the holding power of the clutches/bands.

[Fowlhunter]

If you are at Trenary you are only about 4 miles from my house. It would be a good time to take a ride.

With a stock truck you wouldn't have a whole lot to worry about with removal of torque management. If you added a Corvette or Billet servo you could worry even less as they increase the holding power of the clutches/bands.

No kidding, where are you located? 

What is involved with this, rough price & parts?  By adding the Corvette or billet servo does this firm up the shifts?

[MyBigToy]

No kidding, where are you located? 

What is involved with this, rough price & parts?  By adding the Corvette or billet servo does this firm up the shifts?

I'm right off Hwy K in Royallsprings subdivision.

A Vette servo is pretty cheap - I believe I've seen them for about $29 - you could check at Trenary. The billet servos are considerably more but they also provide more holding power. The Vette servo should be fine on your truck and yes, it will firm up the shifts. It's something that's supposed to be easy to install; I didn't do mine because I had it installed when the shift kit was installed. The only caution I've seen is to make sure you get the snap ring installed and seated properly. You should be able to find a used Predator for $200-$250 and you can use it to firm the shifts up further, zero out the shift times, and eliminate the torque management. Needless to say, you can also adjust timing, shift points (rpm and mph), fuel/air ratio, adjust from 87 to 91 octane tune, etc.

[Main One]

No kidding, where are you located? 

What is involved with this, rough price & parts?  By adding the Corvette or billet servo does this firm up the shifts?

I did the billet servo in my driveway.  Somewhere around $80 or so I think.  Firmed up the shifts, although not as much as a shift kit would.

You can also firm up the shifts with a handheld programmer or tune.

[WB]

I saw that on ebay, You need to find out the revision number on it. Mine is an older revision and may need to get sent back to Diablosport for a $100 update. Mine will not connect to my PC because it is older. If it's updated, then that's a fair price. The revision should be something like 9.xxxxx, mine is 2.04

Please tell me you meant to say you cannot do logging on a laptop but, CAN uplaod and download new tunes!!   

[kklobe]

Thanks for all of the input.  I never would have through to check on updates for this, should know something by tomorrow.  I went ahead and bumped the cold air intake up and put it on two nights ago.  The response off the line is noticeably quicker, but still sluggish.  From what I was reading in some of the replies, is the transmission underpowered for the Av?  Or should I say under-built to handle a vehicle of this size?  I want to improve power but not if it's going to shell the transmission.  I can't afford to replace that just yet!

I have also seen that there are several people around here in Missouri.  If you are ever in the Warrensburg area, let's do lunch.  I own a bike and skate shop in downtown Warrensburg and getting away won't be a problem as I, fortunately, get to make the rules   Freeride Bike and Skate Shop in the wonderful downtown.  My door is always open.

Thanks again to everyone for the input and help.  I'm sure there will be more to follow.

Kevin

[oHIobellboy]

Please tell me you meant to say you cannot do logging on a laptop but, CAN uplaod and download new tunes!!   

Just found out today from diablosport. http://www.diablosport.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=12974&highlight=   Mine is the older version and needs to be sent in for an update $99. I may just sell it to save the 100 and take whatever I get and apply it towards HPT. If I can get enough out of it plus saving the $99 I'll be about 60% of the cost of HPT. I the can turn my fans on and do whatever tweaking I need plus work on a few others.

I guess I need to clarify that answer to your question a little better. I can't "log" with the Pred as it's too old. It won't sync up with my PC either. I CAN upload and even modify the tunes that are preloaded on the Pred.


As far as the TM, I agree with everyone above. Shut it off and you'll notice a difference. I've also quickened my shifts OR firmed up my shifts by adjusting the line pressure on mine. I can't remember which one is maxed out on the tunes that are on the Pred already. I did just read that last night on their forum though.

[MyBigToy]

From what I was reading in some of the replies, is the transmission underpowered for the Av?  Or should I say under-built to handle a vehicle of this size?  I want to improve power but not if it's going to shell the transmission.  I can't afford to replace that just yet!

There's really nothing wrong with the 4L60/65E transmission per say. It's just marginal in a 6000 lb. vehicle. That's too much weight to get moving quickly from a dead stop without overstressing things and that's why GM put the torque management in place to limit their warranty exposure. The best insurance policy you can get to help the tranny live longer is a good auxiliary tranny oil cooler as heat is the biggest enemy for a tranny. I've got a Tru-Cool 26k btu unit that I chose because it has a bypass valve that doesn't allow cold fluid to flow through it. A Vette servo or billet servo is also a good, cheap idea as it increases the holding power of the bands so you have less slippage. With less slippage you get less heat and again, with less heat you get longer life.

[oHIobellboy]

I believe Mick has a "how to" thread on the Vette servos in here somewhere. Ah, here's the link  He'll have to reinstall the pix as it was done before the server move.

[kklobe]

A Vette servo or billet servo is also a good, cheap idea as it increases the holding power of the bands so you have less slippage. With less slippage you get less heat and again, with less heat you get longer life.

The vette servos I have looked at online, some have the pin and some do not.  Do you typically reuse the existing pin or should you replace it?

Kevin

[bluedevil]

The vette servos I have looked at online, some have the pin and some do not.  Do you typically reuse the existing pin or should you replace it?

Kevin

I must be burned up.  I dont remember if i replaced the pin. 

   Im pretty sure i did tho'.

(im not home this week to look at the old servos to verify).


I bought the servos and shift kit from this seller:

http://stores.ebay.com/Oregon-Performance-Transmission_W0QQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

most AV folks use him as well.

[kklobe]

So for the servo, will this work http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CORVETTE-SERVO-700R4-4L60-4L60E-W-LONGER-PIN_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742Q2em153Q2el1262QQcategoryZ33727QQihZ009QQitemZ8005428394QQtcZphoto or do I need to verify specifics from my driveline?  And is this type of shift kit worth the money, time and effort?  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRANSGO-4L60E-4L60-E-SHIFT-KIT-GM-CHEVY-TRANSMISSION_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713Q2em153Q2el1262QQcategoryZ34208QQihZ007QQitemZ4580565528QQtcZphoto

Thanks yet again,

Kevin

[MyBigToy]

So for the servo, will this work eBay auction: #Item number: 8005428394or do I need to verify specifics from my driveline?  And is this type of shift kit worth the money, time and effort?  eBay auction: #Item number: 4580565528

Thanks yet again,

Kevin

I get a "this listing has been removed" message when I click the links. You want the Transgo HD2 shift kit and you should get a hardened separator plate also if you are going to do a shift kit.

[kklobe]

I messed up on the posting, the message board is tearing me up tonight....

[oHIobellboy]

Thanks for all of the input.  I never would have through to check on updates for this, should know something by tomorrow.  I went ahead and bumped the cold air intake up and put it on two nights ago.  The response off the line is noticeably quicker, but still sluggish.  From what I was reading in some of the replies, is the transmission underpowered for the Av?  Or should I say under-built to handle a vehicle of this size?  I want to improve power but not if it's going to shell the transmission.  I can't afford to replace that just yet!

I have also seen that there are several people around here in Missouri.  If you are ever in the Warrensburg area, let's do lunch.  I own a bike and skate shop in downtown Warrensburg and getting away won't be a problem as I, fortunately, get to make the rules   Freeride Bike and Skate Shop in the wonderful downtown.  My door is always open.

Thanks again to everyone for the input and help.  I'm sure there will be more to follow.

Kevin

Here's some food for thought. If that Pred sells for $215 and you have to spend another $99 plus shipping two ways for an update, You're not that far off from a new one with a warranty.

[bluedevil]

Links are not working.

when posting ebay links,just copy the the item number only and post them between the "ebay" tag found when posting a reply.

[WB]

You all talking about my mod wish list????

It's well known I have a very strong and very negative opinion of the 4L60E being used for an AV that weighs 7007lbs!!!   

Anyways...bet this would help it out...I just need to find a darn shop that will do it for me...

-TRANSGO 4L60E HD2 SHIFT KIT 93-UP TRANSMISSION LS1 LT1
-700R4 4L60E BILLET SUPERIOR FAIRBANKS SUPER SERVO
-700R4 4L60E BILLET 4TH SUPERIOR SUPER SERVO CORVETTE
-700-R4/4L60-E 2500-2800 STALL TORQUE CONVERTER

[bluedevil]

You all talking about my mod wish list????

It's well known I have a very strong and very negative opinion of the 4L60E being used for an AV that weighs 7007lbs!!!   

Anyways...bet this would help it out...I just need to find a darn shop that will do it for me...

-TRANSGO 4L60E HD2 SHIFT KIT 93-UP TRANSMISSION LS1 LT1
-700R4 4L60E BILLET SUPERIOR FAIRBANKS SUPER SERVO
-700R4 4L60E BILLET 4TH SUPERIOR SUPER SERVO CORVETTE
-700-R4/4L60-E 2500-2800 STALL TORQUE CONVERTER

I have them all installed          (im rubing it in)

[MyBigToy]

I have them all installed          (im rubing it in)

Ditto and then some!   

Where's KY_Bob when you need him? He could rub it in on both of us. 

[WB]

I have them all installed          (im rubing it in)

That's just mean!!!   

KARMA!!!   

BTW...yes heat is the #1 killer of these trannies and I have read that by diasbling TM and firming up shifts reduces clutch usage which reduces heat and extends life.....

Did I miss something besides getting my kit installed???

[MyBigToy]

I want to improve power but not if it's going to shell the transmission.  I can't afford to replace that just yet!

I thought I would interject a thought here - exactly where do you think you are headed? What is the ultimate horsepower that you are planning? If you're only going to do bolt-ons and bump the hp moderately you don't have to spend as much money. We could give you a little better direction on exactly what to buy instead of throwing out all of the things that can be replaced.

[Main One]

I thought I would interject a thought here - exactly where do you think you are headed? What is the ultimate horsepower that you are planning? If you're only going to do bolt-ons and bump the hp moderately you don't have to spend as much money. We could give you a little better direction on exactly what to buy instead of throwing out all of the things that can be replaced.

I agree.  My tranny is stock except for the billet servo.  I've also go a higher stall converter, but that's not really in the tranny itself.

I'm running a hotter cam, headers, catback exhaust, ram air, and custom tuning, with a dyno sheet showing nearly 300 hp at the rear wheels.  10.3 on a 1/8 dragstrip.  Pushing 180,000 miles on the tranny.  The tranny isn't really weak, but it certainly isn't overdone either.

[WB]

I want either a blower or a JET ENGINE and I want 100MPG while running at least 250MPH in 4x4!!            

 

WB

[WB]

Just found out today from diablosport. http://www.diablosport.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=12974&highlight=   Mine is the older version and needs to be sent in for an update $99. I may just sell it to save the 100 and take whatever I get and apply it towards HPT. If I can get enough out of it plus saving the $99 I'll be about 60% of the cost of HPT. I the can turn my fans on and do whatever tweaking I need plus work on a few others.

I guess I need to clarify that answer to your question a little better. I can't "log" with the Pred as it's too old. It won't sync up with my PC either. I CAN upload and even modify the tunes that are preloaded on the Pred.


As far as the TM, I agree with everyone above. Shut it off and you'll notice a difference. I've also quickened my shifts OR firmed up my shifts by adjusting the line pressure on mine. I can't remember which one is maxed out on the tunes that are on the Pred already. I did just read that last night on their forum though.

OK...after acting like a WB on Diablo's forum...      

I found out that you can sync to the PC with your predator.   

Mikel must have misunderstood you OBB.  He gets a lot of questions on U7193 updates so please understand.... 

You need to get with 06MonteSS.  He's the GM guru on the forum for GM...heck probably more.... 

I think you either have not gotten your comm setup right or something else....

If you get Diablo your tune they will set up your fans in the PCM via custom tune and then you can load it to the predator via serial.

Get with me so we don't keep  this.

WB