Author Topic: Lowering my Av?? (Read 4966 times)

MoAv · « **on:** February 21, 2008, 01:06:15 AM »

I've been thinking about lowering my Av...just in the planning/thinking stage right now. But I have some questions. With the reading I've been doing it seems there are several ways to do this, and I don't know enough about it to decide. I want to lower the Av at least 3", but don't want to lose too much of the comfortable ride. I talked to a shop here in town who will be more than glad to do this (for about $800) with a kit that also includes shocks. He told me that the ride will lose some of the "floaty" feel and have a tighter sportier feel to it. That would be ok, as long as it's not like my stepson's mini that I swear has no shocks...

I guess what I need to know is what all do you really need to do this? I don't want to end up buying a bunch of stuff that isn't necessary.

Also, I like the nose down look of the Av - Can I keep this,or does it have to be leveled too? Shop says it will be level...

I appreciate any info/thoughts...

MyBigToy · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2008, 05:16:08 AM »

Quote from: MoAv on February 21, 2008, 01:06:15 AM

I've been thinking about lowering my Av...just in the planning/thinking stage right now. But I have some questions. With the reading I've been doing it seems there are several ways to do this, and I don't know enough about it to decide. I want to lower the Av at least 3", but don't want to lose too much of the comfortable ride. I talked to a shop here in town who will be more than glad to do this (for about $800) with a kit that also includes shocks. He told me that the ride will lose some of the "floaty" feel and have a tighter sportier feel to it. That would be ok, as long as it's not like my stepson's mini that I swear has no shocks...

I guess what I need to know is what all do you really need to do this? I don't want to end up buying a bunch of stuff that isn't necessary.

Also, I like the nose down look of the Av - Can I keep this,or does it have to be leveled too? Shop says it will be level...

I appreciate any info/thoughts...

You can keep the nose-down look by simply buying the same amount of drop on the rear as on the front. Most of the "kits" you buy are also leveling kits - say, 2" front, 4" rear. It just means you'll have to order alacarte.

Once CAFCNA is back up, check out Flabouy's setup. By now you know he researches things to death before pulling the trigger. You definitely do not want to go with the torsion keys as the ride is not good. Drop spindles are the way to go.

The more you drop, the tougher it is to retain a somewhat stock ride. I wouldn't recommend going more than 3" if you want the stock ride.

I'm sure Mick will be along shortly also...................

tdybr27 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2008, 08:24:04 AM »

I lower mine, at least the drivers side, every time I get in it.

KY_BOB · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:10:42 AM »

I've rode in a couple of lowered AV's that didn't ride bad. As MBT said, don't skimp and do keys in the front, you won't be happy with the ride. Either go with spindles or leave it alone.

Most all of the kits that I've seen drop the rear more than the front but even with a 2"/3" kit it will still have some rake in it. If you want a little more, you can back the stock keys off a half inch or so without screwing up your ride.

By lowering the center of gravity, it will take some of the body roll out of turns and give it a more sporty feel.

MoAv · « **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2008, 11:46:57 AM »

Ok, drop spindles are one thing I need. On Stylintrucks.com, they have different kits, but want to know if you have factory premium shocks, or w/without coil spring suspension...

Here is the kit I was looking at, but it may be too much drop Linky thingy

KY_BOB · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2008, 11:56:31 AM »

Quote from: MoAv on February 21, 2008, 11:46:57 AM

Ok, drop spindles are one thing I need. On Stylintrucks.com, they have different kits, but want to know if you have factory premium shocks, or w/without coil spring suspension...

Here is the kit I was looking at, but it may be too much drop Linky thingy

Peggy, they only have 3 kits to fit your AV one of them is 1"-2" front and a 3" rear drop. By it giving a range of adjustment, it means that it has keys for the front rather than spindles. The other 2 kits are more extreme than you want to go (3"/5" drop).

Let me look around. I don't have anything better to do.

MoAv · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2008, 12:04:00 PM »

Thanks KyBob - It's sooooo frustrating when I want to do something and have absolutely no clue how to go about it. But I'm learning!!

tdybr27 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2008, 12:09:06 PM »

Quote from: MoAv on February 21, 2008, 12:04:00 PM

Thanks KyBob - It's sooooo frustrating when I want to do something and have absolutely no clue how to go about it. But I'm learning!!

Funny... that's what I said to my last g/f

MoAv · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2008, 12:11:57 PM »

Quote from: tdybr27 on February 21, 2008, 12:09:06 PM

Funny... that's what I said to my last g/f

MoAv · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2008, 12:26:44 PM »

Is this what they talk about when a truck is "bagged"? AirBags

How is this better/worse than the drop spindles you're talking about? Other than having a blow out of course..

I have air bag suspension on my Lincoln and it's a very nice ride...

MyBigToy · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2008, 12:33:31 PM »

Quote from: MoAv on February 21, 2008, 12:26:44 PM

Is this what they talk about when a truck is "bagged"? AirBags

How is this better/worse than the drop spindles you're talking about? Other than having a blow out of course..

I have air bag suspension on my Lincoln and it's a very nice ride...

An air bag suspension that's set up properly would be great. But it takes a lot of engineering to get it set up properly and normally quite a few $$$$.

MoAv · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2008, 12:38:02 PM »

Quote from: MyBigToy on February 21, 2008, 12:33:31 PM

An air bag suspension that's set up properly would be great. But it takes a lot of engineering to get it set up properly and normally quite a few $$$$.

Hmmmm...not to sure I like the looks of all those dollar signs... I do however like the idea of the air bag suspension. I would guess that it is adjustable too? You can raise and lower it at will??

Dang, I need to do a LOT of research on this...

KY_BOB · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2008, 12:56:47 PM »

Granted this is not my area of expertise but I'm not having any luck finding a 2/3 kit with spindles.

MoAv · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2008, 12:59:37 PM »

I've been looking too and so far, all I'm finding are one's with springs. You can buy the spindle seperately but I haven't found them in a kit. Found something else called a flip kit...ever heard of that?

KY_BOB · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2008, 01:03:28 PM »

Quote from: MoAv on February 21, 2008, 12:59:37 PM

I've been looking too and so far, all I'm finding are one's with springs. You can buy the spindle seperately but I haven't found them in a kit. Found something else called a flip kit...ever heard of that?

That is a kit for leaf spring rear suspension. You have coils in the rear.

All of the 2/3's that I've found have keys for the front and coils for the rear.

MoAv · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2008, 01:06:12 PM »

Thanks for looking Bob - I'll keep researching till I find what I think I need...then run it past everyone in here...

There's alot to this stuff. I've been doing the easy mods - now for the tough ones...

KY_BOB · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2008, 01:18:41 PM »

When CAFCNA come back up send a PM to grnxnam. He's the guru of lowering. He can tell you what to get and where the best place to get it.

Is he a member here? If so, send him a PM here and get him in on this conversation.

KY_BOB · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2008, 01:20:50 PM »

He's a member here. Shoot him a PM.

http://www.midwestavalancheclub.com/index.php?action=profile;u=79

MoAv · « **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2008, 01:23:37 PM »

Good idea. I'll even put a "pretty please" with it!!

BTW - I found a kit Here (The deluxe kit)

MoAv · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2008, 01:33:21 PM »

Sent PM.

KY_BOB · « **Reply #20 on:** February 21, 2008, 01:33:48 PM »

That's the first one that I've seen. I'm sure that Byron will be along soon.

grnxnam · « **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2008, 02:57:23 PM »

just passing through.... on my way back out. when i get back, I'll share my lessons learned 9the hard way) with everyone. sorry, not enough time ot do it now.

MoAv · « **Reply #22 on:** February 21, 2008, 03:04:14 PM »

Thanks Greenie! I just don't know where to start!! Appreciate it

tdybr27 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 21, 2008, 03:08:07 PM »

Quote from: MoAv on February 21, 2008, 03:04:14 PM

Thanks Greenie! I just don't know where to start!! Appreciate it

Start UP and then go down

MoAv · « **Reply #24 on:** February 21, 2008, 03:11:39 PM »

No, No, NO!! Don't want up - only down....

(Where's the beating smilie when you need it...)

tdybr27 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 21, 2008, 03:19:09 PM »

Quote from: MoAv on February 21, 2008, 03:11:39 PM

No, No, NO!! Don't want up - only down....

(Where's the beating smilie when you need it...)

tdybr27 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 21, 2008, 03:19:41 PM »

Quote from: MoAv on February 21, 2008, 03:11:39 PM

No, No, NO!! Don't want up - only down....

(Where's the beating smilie when you need it...)

but see when you go down, that means you started up! right?

MoAv · « **Reply #27 on:** February 21, 2008, 03:23:10 PM »

Quote from: tdybr27 on February 21, 2008, 03:19:41 PM

but see when you go down, that means you started up! right?

I'm going to have to think about that one carefully....it could sooooo go downhill...

tdybr27 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 21, 2008, 03:24:43 PM »

Quote from: MoAv on February 21, 2008, 03:23:10 PM

I'm going to have to think about that one carefully....it could sooooo go downhill...

Nah, we wouldn't allow that.

MoAv · « **Reply #29 on:** February 21, 2008, 03:40:06 PM »

That's right - I forget that you can do that stuff...

previous messages...

I'm behaving now...

tdybr27 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 21, 2008, 03:45:34 PM »

Quote from: MoAv on February 21, 2008, 03:40:06 PM

That's right - I forget that you can do that stuff... previous messages...

I'm behaving now...

grnxnam · « **Reply #31 on:** February 21, 2008, 04:09:22 PM »

ok... here we go... lessons learned the hard way (mostly)....

1. do research... lots and lots of research. the best thing is to look at pix of lowered Av's. Find one or two with the stance you think you want, then start picking the owner's brain.

2. tire/wheel size will have a lot to do with the look. larger wheels (even with the same outside diameter as stock) will have a different look than stock wheels.

questions you might want to ask:

a. how much of a drop?
b. what kit dod you use?
c. how does it compare to stock? softer? stiffer? more bounce?
d. keys or spindles in front?
e. price? (some people might not wanna answer this one for some reason)
f. did you install it or have it done at a shop? (if installed at a shop, get a price just to get an idea on what to expect)
g. does it rub?

questions you MUST ask:

a. are you happy with it?
b. would you do it again?
c. if you did it again, would you go lower/not as low?
d. how does it compare to stock?
e. what would you do different?

I'm sure there's more questions to ask, but those will get you pointed in the right direction.

what I learned the hard way....

be sure the drop you select is low enough for you. I've done a 2/3, 3/3, 4/3 (dont ask), and a 4/5 drop on my Av before bagging it (more on that later).

Spindles are a MUST when dropping if keeping ride quality is important. "technically" if you do spindles in the front, an alignment "shouldnt" be necessary, but IMO anytime you have all of your suspension apart, an alignment should be done. Get an alignment with a year warranty or at least one that you can bring it back in a few months for a realignment. because of this, I was able to get my front realigned 4-5 times within a year without having to pay any extra... shop wasnt happy, but what could they do? lol

also, with spindles, the front suspension retains all factory angles.....NOTHING IS CHANGED. instead of lowering the Av, you're actually moving the tire/wheel up into the wheel well.

the 2/3 drop was McGaughy 2" drop spindles in the front and Eibach 3" drop springs in the rear. the Eibach springs were a little soft for my taste.

the 3/3 drop was the same as above, I just adjusted the keys a little. made the front a little bouncy also. This is when I started having rubbing issues in the front... 305/40/22 tires. wasnt bad, but it rubbed.

4/3 drop (yes, 4/3 drop)it was nearing the end of my one year realignment deal and I knew I wanted to go lower, so I went ahead and tweeked the keys as far down as I could. some folks have had getting the front aligned within specs when this low. I ordered my 5" drop springs and took forever to get them delivered.

4/5 drop... finally got my 5" drop springs installed. I installed heavy duty drop springs.... way too stiff if you have bad roads. they hate speed bumps also, but great at 90 mph. If you dont tow/haul much, I dont recommend these HD springs.

I'm not even gonna get into which kit is better or worse because its all based on opinion. BUT there is a few kits that most have been happy with.

Most people have had fewer complaints with the Beltech 2/4 kit. Z66 Butch installed this one on his Av not too long ago. Raceman also has this one. Pick their brains, ask for pix.

Spindles are MY front drop method of choice. Budget... key are cheap and get the job done. New control arms (havent researched this one much) but I've heard of more alignment issues with them.

IS MY AV A Z66? if so, this causes a lot of new questions to be asked......

do I want to keep the load leveling shocks that come stock on my Z66? if so, you might want to stick with a 3" rear drop. If keeping the LL shocks is important to you, then you'll need to add shock extensions/relocators. this will "fool" the LL shocks into thinking that the new 3" drop is factory height. the only extensions I've ever seen have been 3"

If you do a spindle drop in the front, then you can run stock shocks... remember, you havent actually adjusted the suspension by swapping the spindles. If you adjust the keys to get an inch or so drop in the front, stock shocks should be ok as well.

anything other than the Z66 situation mentioned above, you might want to consider new shocks. Drop shocks would be recommended, especially for a 4-5" drop in the rear. Beltech Nitro Avtive Drop shocks seem to be the drop shock of choice.

you want it slammed in the rear? from what I've read, you'll need a trailing arm relocation kit. this allows the rear of the Av to keep close to the stock drivetrain angles with a massive drop. DJM offers this kit and recommends it. not all drop kits recommend it, but I know of 2 people who have broken pieces on the rear of their Av without it and later added it.

What did I miss? I'm sure there's something else. I'll never claim to be an expert on this, but I do know what i was happy with and what others have said they were happy with.

want it bagged? hehehe... thats a whole different thread and a whole lot more typing.

disclaimer: non of the above info should be considered professional advice. its just crap I've done in the past. All work should be performed and/or checked by a professional. Use you best judgement when adjusting/changing suspension pieces on your truck.

bluedevil · « **Reply #32 on:** February 21, 2008, 04:26:58 PM »

Dude! I gotta see your AV this summer. It keeps getting better and better

grnxnam · « **Reply #33 on:** February 21, 2008, 04:29:25 PM »

Quote from: BlueDevil on February 21, 2008, 04:26:58 PM

Dude! I gotta see your AV this summer. It keeps getting better and better

Thanks, its appearing at a GTG near you. lol. Nationals? Even if I'm not there, I've arranged for my Av to make the trip without me. hehehe

MoAv · « **Reply #34 on:** February 21, 2008, 04:37:08 PM »

Grnxnam - THANK YOU so much. That has a lot of good info. I'm going to be takiing your advise and start asking, asking, asking. People may get tired of me

But I want to do this right-and only once!! My stepson has a GMC Sonoma (93) that has been radically dropped/hydraulics/$15,000 paint job...but he bought it that way so he doesn't know much about the technical things. Plus it rides HORRIBLE!! I do not want to do that to my Av.

Again, thank you. I know that was a lot of work...

(by the way...you said to find one you like? YOURS!!!

But I can't do all that soooo....

)

grnxnam · « **Reply #35 on:** February 21, 2008, 04:41:09 PM »

Quote from: MoAv on February 21, 2008, 04:37:08 PM

Grnxnam - THANK YOU so much. That has a lot of good info. I'm going to be takiing your advise and start asking, asking, asking. People may get tired of me But I want to do this right-and only once!! My stepson has a GMC Sonoma (93) that has been radically dropped/hydraulics/$15,000 paint job...but he bought it that way so he doesn't know much about the technical things. Plus it rides HORRIBLE!! I do not want to do that to my Av.

Again, thank you. I know that was a lot of work...

(by the way...you said to find one you like? YOURS!!! But I can't do all that soooo.... )

ask away. I'm always happy to answer. With all these forums, i might need a reminder that you're asking here. I havent been on line much lately. quick answers are available at grnxnam@yahoo.com

MoAv · « **Reply #36 on:** February 21, 2008, 04:52:26 PM »

grnxnam · « **Reply #37 on:** February 21, 2008, 05:46:55 PM »

Quote from: Avalanche Fox on February 21, 2008, 05:44:49 PM

any lowering questions... i ALWAYS call the bad b personally... he's my hero on these

if u end up doing it, just be sure to post lots o' pics

lol. you and everyone else. I've gotten about 20-25 pm's about it from 5-6 people in the past month.

grnxnam · « **Reply #38 on:** February 21, 2008, 05:51:34 PM »

Quote from: Avalanche Fox on February 21, 2008, 05:49:50 PM

omg... so u're actually UPSET that someone finally wants u for something? i just wanna be luv'd by u, just u and nobody else but u.... boop-oop-ee-doop--- BOOP !

nope. not upset at all. I've answered every pm/email/thread that I've known about. I love to help.

MoAv · « **Reply #39 on:** February 21, 2008, 05:55:11 PM »

It really means alot to us newbs too...If you have no knowledge of something and don't know where to even start...having someone as knowledgeable as you are willing to help is a wonderful thing!

MoAv · « **Reply #40 on:** February 21, 2008, 05:59:59 PM »

Quote from: Avalanche Fox on February 21, 2008, 05:58:58 PM

don't let him fool ya... he's working his way to heaven...

Suuuuure, I believe you!!

MoAv · « **Reply #41 on:** February 21, 2008, 06:09:02 PM »

tdybr27 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 21, 2008, 06:59:27 PM »

Quote from: Avalanche Fox on February 21, 2008, 05:58:58 PM

don't let him fool ya... he's working his way to heaven...

hmm... something tells me it's gonna take more than answering a few PM's about lowering the AV to do that...

MyBigToy · « **Reply #43 on:** February 22, 2008, 05:17:06 AM »

Peggy - I bet you didn't realize what kind of project you were getting into when you asked a simple question, did you?

MyBigToy · « **Reply #44 on:** February 22, 2008, 09:53:00 AM »

Quote from: Avalanche Fox on February 22, 2008, 09:48:38 AM

when r u takin' me out for dinner again btw?...

................. to continue with the

, rumor has it that we may be back down in May.

MyBigToy · « **Reply #45 on:** February 22, 2008, 09:59:04 AM »

Quote from: Avalanche Fox on February 22, 2008, 09:57:20 AM

when u say "we"... specify... whoever u bring better be pretty fly for a white guy... no eye candy = no free ride to tennessee

So you're saying you liked my pretty-boy boss better than ugly old me?

MoAv · « **Reply #46 on:** February 22, 2008, 11:35:27 AM »

Quote from: MyBigToy on February 22, 2008, 05:17:06 AM

Peggy - I bet you didn't realize what kind of project you were getting into when you asked a simple question, did you?

I had no idea! But this is something I really want to do, so it's worth taking the time to learn about it and do it right. I HATE having to do things twice. Well, most of the time anyway

MoAv · « **Reply #47 on:** February 23, 2008, 02:03:52 AM »

I'm not sure I understand something...I need drop spindles. No prob. But do I need the lowering kit too? the ones with the springs and such? I'm not sure what all parts I need. I'm going to see if I can get all the parts online for cheaper than at the shop. They told me they could do the install no matter if I bought the parts from them or not. About $600 or so for the parts from them. I need to find out what kind of lowering kit that is...didn't realize there was more than one way to do this when I talked to them.

This is an awful chop job - but this is what I have in mind:

grnxnam · « **Reply #48 on:** February 23, 2008, 07:16:10 AM »

Quote from: MoAv on February 23, 2008, 02:03:52 AM

I'm not sure I understand something...I need drop spindles. No prob. But do I need the lowering kit too? the ones with the springs and such? I'm not sure what all parts I need. I'm going to see if I can get all the parts online for cheaper than at the shop. They told me they could do the install no matter if I bought the parts from them or not. About $600 or so for the parts from them. I need to find out what kind of lowering kit that is...didn't realize there was more than one way to do this when I talked to them.

This is an awful chop job - but this is what I have in mind:

spindles are for the front. Springs are for the rear. Both should be included in a kit (unless you use new control arms for a 3/5 drop)

I would guess that from looking at the chop job you're wanting a 2/4 or possibly even a 3/5 drop. here's mine way back when... its around a 4/5(+/-) drop.

bluedevil · « **Reply #49 on:** February 23, 2008, 07:29:04 AM »

Hey B!

I use shock relocators but never replaced the dog bones off the sway bar for shorter ones or bent 'em. Is that necessary?

grnxnam · « **Reply #50 on:** February 23, 2008, 07:32:04 AM »

Quote from: BlueDevil on February 23, 2008, 07:29:04 AM

Hey B!

I use shock relocators but never replaced the dog bones off the sway bar for shorter ones or bent 'em. Is that necessary?

on a slight drop, I dont think so. i think the shorter ones will make for a slightly softer ride, but I'm not sure.

bluedevil · « **Reply #51 on:** February 23, 2008, 07:34:14 AM »

Quote from: grnxnam on February 23, 2008, 07:32:04 AM

on a slight drop, I dont think so. i think the shorter ones will make for a slightly softer ride, but I'm not sure.

I think my rear Monroe shocks are giving up on me. I have a set of nitro drop shocks to install this spring and it doesnt require the relocators.

grnxnam · « **Reply #52 on:** February 23, 2008, 07:44:13 AM »

Quote from: BlueDevil on February 23, 2008, 07:34:14 AM

I think my rear Monroe shocks are giving up on me. I have a set of nitro drop shocks to install this spring and it doesnt require the relocators.

have the Nitro Active drop shocks. I'm very happy with them.

MoAv · « **Reply #53 on:** February 23, 2008, 12:02:11 PM »

Quote from: grnxnam on February 23, 2008, 07:16:10 AM

spindles are for the front. Springs are for the rear. Both should be included in a kit (unless you use new control arms for a 3/5 drop)

I would guess that from looking at the chop job you're wanting a 2/4 or possibly even a 3/5 drop. here's mine way back when... its around a 4/5(+/-) drop.

Looking at those pics of yours and some others I've found, I think I'll be going for a 3/5 drop. That has about the right height I'm looking for....

Soooooo, now to start finding my kit....(and robbing a couple banks

)

grnxnam · « **Reply #54 on:** February 23, 2008, 01:54:05 PM »

I'm thinking theres a 3/5 kit that doubles as a 2/4 kit. 2" drop spindles in the front and 5" springs in the rear with a 1" spacer to bring it back up to a 4" drop. the extra 1" drop in the front can be done by adjusting the keys down a little. I think its a Beltech kit. DJM also makes a 3/5 kit that replaces the control arms in the front.

MoAv · « **Reply #55 on:** February 23, 2008, 04:59:07 PM »

Both those companies have good stuff? I've found a couple less expensive ones, but I have a feeling that the suspension is one place I DON"T want to get cheap...Kind of like the brakes....